Curse

Swame Rain · Dec 04, 2006, 11:19 AM // 11:19

I will beg to difer that heros are not needed...there are many missions that require certain heros in NF. And yes I know none of these require the rit..duh..but I'm with the OP on this one. I love the elite area and have finished the city part so far, but making you finish these quests that literly take hours to do seems a little to much if you ask me. But if thats what it takes then I will endure to the end til I at least get him with one of my chars. Maybe they will change the req of doing all the quests...who knows, it is there game to do what they want.

/signed

Eroth · Dec 04, 2006, 11:34 AM // 11:34

/signed?

Maybe in the next game or some other time we should be able to make 1 and only 1 hero totaly new. We do all the normals of making a new character. We pcik the main prof, face, and stuff like that. The AI would be like other heros' and we will have to get our own runes and stuff but they get a basic weapon. AND they start at your lvl so they don't get pwned right out of the gate. d-( ^_^)-b

freekedoutfish · Dec 04, 2006, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Im a bit torn on this idea;

/notsigned cos...

I like the fact you have to work your a** off to get him.

Simply put all you have to do is complete the elite mission, get your 4 rare materials from the NPC and then exchange them for Razah!

Simple as that!

/signed cos...

But I can appreciate that the elite mission obviously isnt easy. I havent even been in there yet and tried despite having completed the game and only having 2 quests left to do.

There are quests in the ROT which are hard enough as it is, so making us work our way through the elite stuff to get the last Hero will probably be frustaring.

/notsigned again cos....

You'l feel alot more accomplished and grin like a chessar-cat when you have Razah and no one else does. He'l have the status of being the elite Hero.

This assumes that hes actually worth all the hassle.

Perynne · Dec 04, 2006, 01:20 PM // 13:20

/signed

I very much like the idea of a rit hero, but I simply am not interested in spending huge amounts of time to get him AFTER I've completed Nightfall. Also, it doesn't make sense to have a Factions-only class as a special prize in Nightfall.

DoA's difficulty is fine (I love the challenge) but Razah simply does not belong there.

draxynnic · Dec 04, 2006, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

You'l feel alot more accomplished and grin like a chessar-cat when you have Razah and no one else does. He'l have the status of being the elite Hero.

This assumes that hes actually worth all the hassle.

This is why I'm in favour of the 'add another Rit' idea. Not every Ritualist in the world has to be a semi-demonic entity born directly from the Mists...

As to the idea from chiefnoshow that if Razah was truly a variable hero there would still be complaints: Well, yes and no. Yes because there would be people saying they can't make team builds relying on three of class X without Razah (that's pretty extreme, but I'm sure there'd be a few), and yes because, if there wasn't a Ritualist hero, he'd be the substitute for everyone wanting a Ritualist. On the other hand, if there was a Ritualist hero available in non-elite play then the people who simply want a Ritualist hero wouldn't be complaining, and either way, if Razah was variable, the people feeling that the effort to gain Razah does not match up to the reward wouldn't be complaining either.

So, ultimately, while there'd probably still be unrest if Razah was variable, it would be less, especially if a non-elite Rit hero was available.

freekedoutfish · Dec 04, 2006, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

This is why I'm in favour of the 'add another Rit' idea. Not every Ritualist in the world has to be a semi-demonic entity born directly from the Mists...

As to the idea from chiefnoshow that if Razah was truly a variable hero there would still be complaints: Well, yes and no. Yes because there would be people saying they can't make team builds relying on three of class X without Razah (that's pretty extreme, but I'm sure there'd be a few), and yes because, if there wasn't a Ritualist hero, he'd be the substitute for everyone wanting a Ritualist. On the other hand, if there was a Ritualist hero available in non-elite play then the people who simply want a Ritualist hero wouldn't be complaining, and either way, if Razah was variable, the people feeling that the effort to gain Razah does not match up to the reward wouldn't be complaining either.

So, ultimately, while there'd probably still be unrest if Razah was variable, it would be less, especially if a non-elite Rit hero was available.

But then you have the rather major issue of implementing an "adjustable character". How does that work?

A player whos primary profession can change;

Ok so changing your primary skills would be easy, and using weapons would be easy as thats not professions limited.

But what about armor? A rather important part of any character and to any player.

The characters build and model frame , simply wouldnt be able to accomodate the alternative armors.

You could make unique armor to them which would only fit them, but then youd have people complaining there was no ritualist hero armor in game.

The way theyve done it, fixes all the issues, and it doesnt leave way for new issues to be raised.

We have a hero of each class and armor for each of them. Problem solved.

As for the debate about having 2 heros for each class.

The only ones we dont have 2 off, are Sins, Rits and Mesmas.

But I personally dont see a problem with that. I dont see why we need 2 of any of those.

Warriors I understand because of tanking.
Monks because of healing.
Rangers to create a barriage team.
Necros to have MM and SS.
Ele's to Nuke and alternative or to have both for mass dmg.

Ive been in teams and seen and used 2 of each at one point or another from that list.

But as for the other 3;

Sins I personally find useless.
Mesmas can be very powerfull professions and I think two would be overpowerment (but you could say the same about ele's), but I still dont see why you would want two. This could be due to never played one.
And I dont see why you would want more then one Ritualist.

This is all personal thoughts though.

But anyway, the debate is about how we aquire the Ritualist and as I already posted. I agree its hard to get them, but I think thats how it should be.

I think its good that atleast one hero is an elite hero and hard to get. Its like a status symbol.

Sarevok Thordin · Dec 04, 2006, 01:46 PM // 13:46

If you want an elite hero make him Dio Brando or something,

I just want a plain ritualist, like someone from Cantha

MithranArkanere · Dec 04, 2006, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neriandal Freit

All of you who are signing this topic are but a minority, and won't see this come about. It's a hard quest, understand that. Hard quests and determination give great rewards. Razah is that great reward.

We are not, you just think that is true, but is not, we are a mayority, read all posts.

Since Razah costs 6000 faction, there should be another available in Cantha that is unlocked for 3000 faction on PvP.
And another mesmer, available in Prophecies and unlocked in PvP for 6000 faction.

Darkobra · Dec 04, 2006, 02:23 PM // 14:23

If these people WERE a minority, then why is it that the MAJORITY of posts agree? I also have to question your obsession with pokemon... You say you don't want "noobs" posting. Well uh... like you said, YOU don't have Razah. Now, this is a forum where READING IS A REQUIREMENT! So read this carefully. No, stop skimming this. Read it:

These people are NOT complaining about the difficulty of the Domain of Anguish. They ARE complaining that the reward just isn't worth it and there IS NO VARIABLE!

Now if you can't read or comprehend that and make one more post about children and pokemon, I will know that you have no real reason to try and debate something you know nothing about.

Sniper Corps · Dec 04, 2006, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Simple as this. They should have raised our hopes about razah being multiple Professions. Those little hints and offhanded writting in that guide book lead everyone to the same conclusion. AND THEY SHUT US DOWN??? Well Screw you A-net. As for Razah being a Rit (Awesome Class, Rit haters Suck) He should be in the Deep or somewhere. A FACTION area. Reiteration ftw!

mqstout · Dec 04, 2006, 03:38 PM // 15:38

I'm not even close to where this is, but from the descriptions, yeah... I wish A.net would stop catering to the super-elite players and abandonning the masses.

Esprit · Dec 04, 2006, 03:52 PM // 15:52

/signed

I was expecting Razah to be variable profession, that would certainly make him an elite-acquisition.

Razah is a Ritualist, that does not make him in elite acquisition.

Altair · Dec 04, 2006, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

/not signed

Razah is the new UW spider. Nice to have but not necessary, we need at least one challange in the game. Everything doesnt have to be easy or quick in this game.

Agree !

/not signed

But I also agree that Razah has variable profession.

MithranArkanere · Dec 04, 2006, 04:07 PM // 16:07

At least, they should male Razah 10+ different Heroes, tradeable at an NPC or something like that.

You talk to that NPC (maybe Razah itself) and it changes into something else.
Unlocking them in PvP would require unlocking each one of them.

GloryFox · Dec 04, 2006, 04:21 PM // 16:21

/signed

Keep DoA the way it is and provide a Rit HERO that is accessible for the general public.

freekedoutfish · Dec 04, 2006, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

/signed

Keep DoA the way it is and provide a Rit HERO that is accessible for the general public.

I dont understand this idea that because you need to do the elite missions, Razah is completely unattainable.

There is actually a quest to achieve him, you need to complete DoA once, get the 4 crystals and exchange them for him.

Plus it isnt really a question of just ignoring the elite missions and not doing them because you dont like them.

If you want to 100% complete the game, you need work your way through DoA because there is a quest at the end asking you too.

So to say Razah is only accessible to the Elite and not the general public is wrong. Your ALL going to be asked to do this quest once you reach this point, so its not out of reach to anyone.

The quest is obviously just alot harder then most, but thats how it is.

I bet most people who have /signed to agree to this post will probably finished nightfall in the next couple of weeks or a month, get to DoA and fly through it.

Then look back on this and think "what was I complaining about", that was easy.

And youve only got to do it once.

yayrichie · Dec 04, 2006, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

I dont understand this idea that because you need to do the elite missions, Razah is completely unattainable...

While I haven't scoured through this thread, I'm pretty sure the point is not that Razah is unattainable, but rather that "Razah's PvE aquisition is UNREASONABLE. ......."
Sure, eventually everyone will probably end up forcing themselves through the Domain of Anguish (has anyone else noticed how positively accurate the name of the new area is?), but they'll be doing it after they've completed all of Nightfall. So, for all of those who have every Factions Ritualist skill unlocked, obtaining a hero who can use those skills optimally requires going through an entire campaign and a monstrosity of an elite mission.

freekedoutfish · Dec 04, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by yayrichie

While I haven't scoured through this thread, I'm pretty sure the point is not that Razah is unattainable, but rather that "Razah's PvE aquisition is UNREASONABLE. ......."
Sure, eventually everyone will probably end up forcing themselves through the Domain of Anguish (has anyone else noticed how positively accurate the name of the new area is?), but they'll be doing it after they've completed all of Nightfall. So, for all of those who have every Factions Ritualist skill unlocked, obtaining a hero who can use those skills optimally requires going through an entire campaign and a monstrosity of an elite mission.

I agree that getting him at the end is a bit anti-productive, because the only place you can then use him, is in a future campaign.

Unless your going to grind for titles in NF or a previous game.

But I think the challenge is still more or less acceptible.

Esprit · Dec 04, 2006, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

<snip>
Then look back on this and think "what was I complaining about", that was easy.

And youve only got to do it once.

The point is; your last hero is acquired a few missions before the Realm of Torment, then the ones you did not unlock via the forked quests you can acquire once you beat the game.

The Ritualist Hero's acquisition is many magnitudes harder compared to all the other hero's and it does not make sense to most people why a Ritualist Hero is in an elite area. And you do not get the hero until you've beaten the game and get access to the Elite area. People want the hero playable through the regular game, not after you've beaten the game.

geekling · Dec 04, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

Razah is the new UW spider. Nice to have but not necessary, we need at least one challange in the game. Everything doesnt have to be easy or quick in this game.

Thank you for demonstrating just how much you do not get it.

No, Razah is not the new UW spider.

The UW spider does not do anything that other pets can't. The UW spider does not have more health than other pets. The UW spider does not have special attacks normal pets do not have. Everything the UW spider can do, can be done with a common melandrus stalker.
It is simply a vanity item - just a question about looks. Mechanically there is no difference between an UW spider and any other pet.
Just like FoW armour does not have any mechanical advantage over plain max AL armour that does not require faffing about in so called elite areas.

Razah does do things the other heroes can not do. As the only ritualist hero in the game it is the only one that can effectivly use the skills in the spawning power attribute.
You know, this little thing about primary professions and primary attributes and how those primary attributes can not be raised if it is a primary attribute for your second profession.

Just to pick a random skill.
It's the difference between the skill 'Spirit to Flesh' healing for 30 points or 198 points.

Had they put Zhed Shadowhoof as the hero only available in the elite area, it would have been a valid comparison.
You want a my little pony hero to follow you around. You cap it in the elite area.
If you're not really bothered about your elementalist hero being a pony - you use Acolyte Susuke.